Subject: Re: Oh Lord...

On Oct 16, 2005, at 2:16 PM, Dave Bass wrote:
Bottom line - keep the terms pure, mix em how you like, and enjoy them all!

OK Dave, I followed you all the way to your close. What DO you mean by "keeping the terms pure"? I don't know how that's possible. How can you have a single definition to cover the vastly broad realm of music considered "jazz"?  What common ground (certainly not swing or "threes") rhythm-wise can encompass it all? We have "jazz standards" that have Latin, funky, pop/ballad, rock, or even NO rhythm, so the swing/threes thing doesn't fit.  Is Footprints no longer "jazz" if it's played as a Samba in 4?

IMHO, I believe it's organic growth has evolved its definition closer to what Scott delineated in his message, than any more narrowly defined one. When a Sonny Rollins or Herbie Hancock can feel it's still "jazz" despite what rhythm it's laid upon, how can any of us argue? Hey, back in the day, many jazz players & critics thought be–bop wasn't jazz, or some of Coltrane's stuff was "anti–jazz", and in hindsight, we can all see how SILLY that all was.......yeah?

Dear lowman777:

So, whether we want to admit it or not, jazz, jass, etc. is the product of Africans in America. They are the innovators of a music that future musicians, black, yellow, red and white, have taken to be their own. I've worked with musicians from five continents. Japanese pianist Kuni Makami worked with me at the Blue Note in NYC, in the 80s, a gig I will never forget, because Kuni is baaaaaddddd! I know that Swiss musicians swing differently from Italians, that South Americans have far more interesting rhythms than Austrians. Ironically, the musicians I sang with in Ghana didn't know the American song book as well as Sicilians, who are great but still don't have the groove that Dr. Lonnie Smith put me in for 10 years in Fort Lauderdale. It's so evident on my new CD, In Pursuit of A Melody CD by Joan Cartwright - www.fyicommin.com (http://www.fyicomminc.com/inpursuit.htm), a compilation of jazz, blues, pop, techno, hiphop and piano music, which I will be airing on WCLK (91.3 FM) in Atlanta, on Thursday evening with Renee Williams at 7:00 p.m. Listen online at www.wclk.com (This is a public service announcement!)

IS MARSALIS RACIST?

Fri, 14 Oct 2005
From: "Fugate, Scott"

sfugate@brenau.edu

Subject: your opinions

I recently had the "what is jazz" discussion" at my radio station.  It is interesting how it seems to pop up again and again -- whether it be on this list, in discussions between musicians, or between DJs and Program Directors at radio stations.  We can usually come to a common consensus. . .but if often takes a fight to get to the point where we realize that we all actually agree with each other in spirit if not in specific technique.   

Jazz is a topic that a lot of people are passionate about, probably because it is tied into the very core of American culture and our national identity as well as our individual concept of aesthetics and art.  

As Eric said, jazz is indeed "a blues-based form of music making use of particular rhythms, all of which have some element of swing to them. Most importantly, jazz is a music of dialog, a "democracy on the bandstand" that is propelled by improvisation."

However, there is another aspect of jazz that I am quite passionate about -- and often gets me into arguments.  I see jazz as a metaphor for American democracy itself. . .and it is at the core of the melting pot from which our overall society arose from. 

I wrote out a defense for my view of jazz in the discussion I was having with my DJs at WBCX, and thought I'd share them with this list.  Read or delete -- just don't stone me.

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Jazz arose specifically from the blending of African, Island, and European music performed primarily by African Americans and a few Creoles. . .but it was also the birth of multi-culturalism, and continues as a beacon of unity and democratic equality to this day.

The early jazz players incorporated everything they heard around them into improvisational quotes -- as do many jazz players today.  Jazz is not only a dialog between musicians -- but a dialog between cultures which ties together disparate forms of musical expression.

If you leave out any of the history of music, or any of the advances or evolutions in music to be blended into the continually evolving jazz melting pot . . . you lose the essence of the gumbo from which jazz emerged.   Many musical styles came to it, and emerge from it. . .similar to adaptation in nature. A bird might have flown to North America from another continent -- adapting to our environment, and over time through cross-breeding and general naughtiness . . .a new truly American bird is born.  Thus, jazz took all that European, African, South American, and Island music and blended it into a new genre or species. . .from which many other forms have arisen through adaptation, cross-breeding, etc.

Rock and Roll & other 20th century musical forms evolved out of jazz -- fulfilling a cultural need that jazz was ignoring at the time. . .and the fact that the majority of jazz musicians pretty much ignored the cultural need which rock and other musical styles gave voice to caused jazz to become almost irrelevant as far as mainstream culture goes.

However, some genuine innovators and artists such as Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Stanley Clarke, and many others realized that the voice was the same voice which first gave utterance to jazz. . .thus creating "fusion".

Currently, hip hop is addressing a cultural need, and giving it a voice -- whether we like it or not.  Parents are responding to hip hop the same way they did to rock before it, and jazz before that.

Other musical styles are not as malleable as jazz -- which is one of it's greatest assets, as well as one of it's most contentious points!  Rock can not really incorporate hip hop, or it won't be rock anymore. . .however, if jazz ignores hip hop it will no longer fulfill the essence of what jazz was created to be. If jazz refuses to acknowledge other forms that are related to it's own origins, it ceases to be relevant. I don't see jazz as just a "style" -- it is a art form which allows for improvisation and continual change.  It is a metaphor and expression of  Freedom! 

I see it as an art form capable of adapting into all the styles that it has fathered throughout the 20th century, and continues to breed throughout the world.

There are a few things that must remain constant for jazz (syncopation & improvisation in particular), and many forms of jazz that could be called apostate. . .but the bottom line is that they started the same way.   In some ways, there are styles of hip hop and rock right now that are closer to real jazz than many artists that claim to be playing jazz (smooth or otherwise) due to the fact that there is not syncopation, swing, or improvisation.

I am considered heretical by many jazz musicians and fans because I am so inclusive. I have had people argue with me for  years because I see most 20th century musical forms as an extension of  what I call the "jazz continuum".

As I said, it's like democracy -- many people interpret it in different ways. . .but the fact of the matter is that we are allowed to disagree based on the fact that we have a democratic culture. One view of democracy is not necessarily more correct than others, but the arguments abound. . .and in the midst of it all, democracy still allows for a divergent of opinions. Jazz is a complete democracy in the best sense of the word -- and thus, people argue about what it actually is.  Democracy and jazz must make room for pretty much all opinions, even though that inclusively will infuriate those that have a smaller definition for what both encompass.

Jazz functions as an archetypal metaphor -- encompassing our constitution, the freedoms we cherish, democracy at it's best, the work ethic of any craft or art, as well as a wonderful example of best practices for any corporate or team planning. . .and even my own personal faith.

In jazz, all people work off of a common melody -- but there is freedom of interpretation and expression within that melody.

There are specific rules in the structure of jazz -- but if you follow the structure there is complete freedom of individuality.

The more structure and technique one learns, and the more one studies and practices the skill of their craft. . .the more freedom they may have to express their personal creativity, emotion, and voice.

The only way jazz works is if each artist listens to one another -- freedom is only found in the listening and responding to each other. When one artists goes off on their solo without any thought of the others, or the structure of which they are part. . .the whole thing falls apart.

If jazz is done right, it is done only once. . .it can never be imitated, only recreated fresh with each new interpretation.

Jazz can not be created in a vacuum, it can not be put in a box, it must constantly be aware of everything happening around it -- and adapt or evolve -- or it will suffocate (as it has been doing for quite some time).

Jazz could not exist if it wasn't for the blending of all cultures found in America throughout our history. . .if you leave a culture out or lessen the importance of any aspect of it's cultural heritage -- the art form diminishes.

Every artist has equal importance in a jazz band, every member has their own voice, and if one member takes more credit than the others the band falls apart.

Jazz takes every rhythm and increases it. It takes every melody and experiments with it. There is a structure, but the purpose of the structure is to allow each aspect to go beyond it.

Jazz takes each instrument and allows that instrument it's own voice -- there are no background musicians in jazz. Those artists that feel their personal craft is more important than the rest of their bands often end up penniless and destitute.

Ego kills jazz, and has killed some of it's greatest innovators. Anything emerging from ego tends to serve as an end unto itself, and jazz illustrates this throughout it's history better than everything else ego destroys. However, the irony is that there are few areas where an individual can have a more specific voice and express their own personality as much as through jazz.

Just about every aspect of jazz allows for change based on creative interpretation, cultural adaptation, emotional expression, personal freedom, and awareness of all that surrounds it.

Jazz is not just a theory, it is not just a structure -- and to me, it's not just a style of music. . .it is at the core of the multi-cultural blending that has made America great, it is at the core of that which makes my soul sing.

So. . .that's why it is important to me, and I bother engaging in this debate. :-)

Scott Fugate